Dirty Power

I love reading the Valley Voice, if ever there was controversy, the Slocan valley is the center of the universe.

One of my letters to the editor, hopefully its published in the next edition

                               Solar Power in BC is  DIRTY POWER

           

Solar power in BC isn’t “green”, google- “Give Yourself a Big Green Hug”.  

SD10 received their solar system money from the Carbon Neutral Capital Planning grant the website states: carbon neutrality is about achieving net-zero greenhouse gas emissions, yet solar panels in BC increase green house gases adding to our carbon footprint!

Andy Shadrack extolls on the virtue of his solar system, panels bought from China, likely made from Fernie coal mined with diesel equipment, onto diesel trains, then bunker oil powered ships, to burn in chinese power plants heating ores mined by diesel to over 3000 degrees, polluting chinese childrens air and returned via all the same non renewables to make no power when we need it, winter.  Studies show the non renewable energy required to make solar panels won’t be returned in their lifetime, that could certainly be true at our latitude and annual sunshine.

Did anyone understand Mr. Shadrack’s  economic justification for his solar system in his letter?  I didn’t.

                               Here are the real calculations.

 

Mr. Shadrack says his  2.4kW - $22,000 solar system saves money?

Years of  solar data for sunshine in the West Kootenays  says 1kW of solar panels might make 1kWh of power annually.  Almost all of it in summer when nobody needs it.

His 2.4kW of solar panels x 1kWh/kw/yr= 2400kWh annually.

He pays Fortis  9.8c/kWh,  he will save 2400kWh x 9.8c/kWh=$235 annually.

His $22,000 system at 3.5% for 20 years is $1540 annually.   $1540 to save $235 is saving money?   He says it will create jobs,  if his system lasts 20 years, it likely took a couple man days to instal his chinese solar panels, hardly a job  creation program!  He is paying 6 times as much for his dirty solar power than if he did nothing.  If it was his cash, conservative investments are making better than 6% these past years.  $22,000 at 6% with the magic of compounding interest will be over $75,000 in 20 years.   In 20 years Mr. Shadrack will have toxic solar panel junk, and have paid 6 times more for his dirty solar power that increases BC’s carbon footprint and have no money to buy the next set of panels to make dirty power. 

Those of you in Nakusp and New Denver, look at your school solar panels, each one from November through February might make 50 cents worth of power, about 12 cents per  month!! There is public data on the internet at “enphase public systems”.  Zoom into Nakusp, the 48 panel commercial system is the one on the school.  The data shows for December and January it might have made $5 each month.  Its time to stop picking the public pocket for something that can’t help us.  The Nakusp $150,000 microhydro on their city water system makes $100/day and will for the next century or more.  The NSS ($112,000)and Lucerne ($38,180)solar panels about the same cost, might make $12 a day  and last maybe 25 years and become toxic junk.  

Nelson is picking my pocket for their community solar garden. I asked the hydro manager at the budget meeting what makes solar power green, his reply -“nobody said it was green”.

This Nelson solar garden is likely the most absurd greenwashing project on the planet.

 A city  with its own hydro dam, our printing press, our money machine, saving 36% on our taxes.  Water power made for 2c and sold for 10c.  It’s a phoney political stunt that lets the misinformed buy in at some token price that everyone else subsidizes.

SD8 is one of the biggest purchasers of 10 solar panels in the community solar garden.  Maybe they could fund the cities spring pothole patching budget too?  One of SD8’s $1000(subsidized) solar panels will in a year make the power our dam makes for $5.

I thought schools were broke.  The SD8 manager says it will reduce emissions and give administration an idea of how to cut costs and be energy efficient.  The years of data from their $25,000 grant high school solar demonstration system doesn’t tell them?

When will this waste stop?

Max Yanke

Electronics Supv. (ret’d)

Nelson

LET THEM EAT CAKE

                                               

                                                             

"Let them eat cake" supposedly spoken by Queen Marie Antoinette upon learning that the peasants had no bread.  

The Eco Save Coordinator stated charities and others less fortunate might be able to participate in the Nelson Community Solar Garden, the city could provide low or no interest loans.   

They might see an annual credit of $20, but their loan repayment to the city would be over $65/yr. ($923/panel plus $100 admin fee and taxes about "$1100/panel at 3.5% for 20 yrs = $66/yr payments to make $25? and they were told they will get their money back?

I have to wonder how long that line up for charities and those less fortunate to participate was, and its not even "green" power, although I think that was the perception.  But then this project has never been anything but deceptive.

Another stunning piece of brilliance from the EcoSave Coordinator ($79,000) contractor at the Oso Negro coffee shop community meeting was her questionairre.

Should the solar panels be placed where everyone can see them or where they make most power?

Choices were -Strongly agree to strongly disagree,   59% stated they should go where they make the most power......the other 41% thought the solar panels should go where everyone can see them.   

My response, "put them on the front of city hall, even though it faces North they are worthless regardless of location".  

The minutes were kept regarding the oral part of the public meeting at the Oso  coffee shop, all negative comments didn't show up in the minutes. 

Who pays for their $25 year contract for the power from a panel?  Nelson hydro customes and themselves as hydro customers paying full retail for this solar power when they should be receiving the income form our own greener cleaner waterpower now spilling down the river.

Why aren't we pursuing our real opportunities like microhydro, clean green, dependable power.

The city has several microhydro projects identified, clean green water power, good for the next hundred years and beyond, like our own hydro dam, why solar panels that might not last 20 years and only work when we are at the beach!(when annual sun power is greatest)

City council visited Nakusp, they installed a 50kW microhydro plant on their city water intake, its clean green power, 24/7/365 for the next century or more, for $150,000,  Power for 40 homes.

Nelson? Solar panels, power for maybe 4 average homes, less than one in winter, good for maybe 20 years for likely in excess of $300,000, and we have microhydro projects identified!   City council visited the Naksup system, how did we end up with solar panels?

The Emperor has NO Clothes!

                                               Mayor and city council           NCSG

GIVE THE MONEY BACK TO EDUCATION

UPDATE Mar. 2018 SD 58, somebody finally gets it   it was deemed that the project didn’t make sense from an economic point of view.


The school district bought 10 of the Nelson Community Solar Garden solar panels.   One for each school so the students could watch the data and learn from it, huh?  The high school already had a solar demonstration system with public data on the internet to learn from.  Attending a school board trusteed and admin meeting the question was asked did they know they already had a solar system at LVR,  nobody knew except Larry Brown their operations manager who wrote in the local paper this is the first solar project that makes economic sense?  Hello?

Reading the city project information the following statement: "A non-­‐refundable deposit of $500 per
panel will be collected"  I ask the city return all monies to the school district!!!



The engineers data is unsupportable by years of real Nelson solar data, its from a swiss computer modeling program.

Using the LVR High school solar system $25,000 grant demonstration system public data, more realistic, its actually less.  (this High school solar system isn't enough, the SD8 has to spend more money on solar?)

From November through February and I won't go through the math.

The LVR High School  data shows each SD8 solar panel might average for those 4 months what our dam makes for

10c/month.

Do you want the city to return these education dollars?  SD8 bought 10 of these panels for $900 each,  plus $100 admin and taxes about $1100 each

contact city council

send a message to mayor and all councilors here


Why would public dollars fund solar systems that can't compete with clean green waterpower we make a huge profit from helping to pay for city projects and reduce taxes.

Ministry of education funds should be spent for student activities not greenwashing BS.


If there ever was a phony green washing project, there isn't likely one more absurd than this, a city with its own hydro dam, the only one in western canada, reducing our taxes by 36%.

NOW THEY ARE STEALING EDUCATION FUNDS

               SD8 has been fooled into thinking the Nelson solar Garden is a Worthwhile project, its pure politics and now its stealing education funds.  You should be MAD!! Its one thing to fool the public, who are well meaning putting up their $900 or so ($1500?) thinking they are helping the planet and climate change, but to take education money.  This just hurts people.  I am not anti-renewable, but this project is nothing but a political feel good stunt wasting money and it has no value for Nelson.  So those of you reading this who bought a solar panel, thinking this was a green project, its not, and your $900 ($1500), for your panel, in one year makes the power our dam makes for $5.  I keep showing $1500, $900 is because grants are just picking our other pocket, everyone is told this project is paid for by those opting in, its not, we will have to see how much more when its over, but one would think selling the first project of 200 panels would be enough, now they are selling the second solar garden's panels.
Knowing solar like I do, I am trying to educate, solar isn't what we all want it to be.

Nelson,- BC's only city with its own hydro dam, our printing press, our money machine, it reduces our taxes by 36% and pays for city services,  the only city in western Canada with this jewel.  The last city that should even think of spending public money on solar power and they are?  Every Nelson hydro customer is paying for this waste and now education dollars are paying!!!

The school board is buying 10 solar panels, cost? around $900 ea. not the real cost, I don't think anyone knows what that will be yet, ($1500)there are hidden costs picking our pockets.

I estimate behind that curtain real panel costs will likely be around $1500 per panel.

Below are the numbers from years of known solar data and I have worked with solar power for decades.
They say this will help them decide if solar has value, we already know from over $50,000 in public grants for solar systems in Nelson, years of data, this has to be done again!

The Nelson area averages about 1000 kWh/kw/yr solar power. 

The solar garden project is 50 kW from 200 panels, each panel 250 watts or .25kW.

Our dam makes clean green water power for 2c/kWh.

1000 kWh/kw/yr of solar panel x .25kW(one panel)x.02c/kWh=$5.

Therefore one school board panel at $900($1500) in a year makes the power our dam makes for $5. And costs us all the profit it would sell for $25.

For a solar panel power to be considered "green" power it must first return all the non renewable energy required to make it, this is Nelson, not Arizona, it can take years.

UPDATE:  AT this evenings city budget meeting 2016/02/18  I asked Alex Love manager of Nelson Hydro what makes the solar garden green, his reply "its isn't green, no one said it was green"????  And all this time I thought people were throwing their money at this loser because it was green??  So why would anyone throw away their money at this project when Carmen Proctor says its not about a need for power,  what is it??  In one year that 50 kW of solar panels, 10 tons, over a soccer field only makes the same power our dam makes for $700, its a $300,000 project that won't last 20 years? $300,000 at 3% for 20 years is $19,956/yr?  From November through February not enough power for one average home's annual power consumption.

Yet Carmen Proctor  the city contractor ($70,000) to deliver this program, states more than once 

Those buying in are doing their part for the environment by using green energy!!!!!!!!!!!


  Nelson Hydro is doing really great work bringing green energy options to Nelson

And a multitude of other media  inserts using the word Green.??  Confused?

The only way solar power could be called "green" is if it avoids the burning of some non renewable fuel such as coal in some unknown power plant burning coal.  I know of NO such power entering BC midday when solar power is made.  This solar garden power is not "GREEN"  its the opposite.

If solar power could make its way onto the grid trying to find some coal being burned and save it from being burned that would require all of Nelson Hydro's excess water power to be sold first.  Surely no one would pretend solar garden power is greener than our own water spilling over the dam doing nothing.

If any solar power did get to the grid BC Hydro who buys 90% of our excess power pays $.007/kWh. One year of one solar panel power .25 kWh  x $.007/kWh =  $1.75

There are many other variables too complex to include, one would need to know daily and hourly amounts of power sold or purchased etc.

Do you think education dollars should be spent on this project?  Nelson has already seen over $50,000 in solar demonstration grants.  The high school has had one of these for years, that data isn't useful?  

                                               Your power bill is going up 3.8% this year

If you think this is a waste of education dollars let the city council know. If you don't know what to think ask them to confirm or deny what I am showing.

  
Ask them the real total cost per panel I don't think they even know, if not there should be a way to assess those who want to feel green by making them pay for any future unknown costs so we are left out of this.
Who will pay for all future costs, it should not be Nelson hydro customers.

They want you to pay full retail for this solar power, that is a subsidy from everyone who could be buying the cities 2 cent power and bringing the city a profit when its sold for 10 cents.

Every single solar panel hooked into Nelson hydro anywhere is lost income to the city that would have otherwise come from selling cheap green water power.  Who gives city council this advice?

Ask them to tell you the real costs, all the costs present and future for this solar garden, its supposed to be funded by those opting in so they can feel green, I am not willing to fund their warm fuzzy feeling.  
 NO education funds should be spent on this political feel good waste.

Tell  them to give the money back to the kids for education, bus trips, supplies, sports not this city councils feel good political points winning green washing.    Are you mad? 

Let city council know no education dollars should be wasted click here.

If  you bought a panel thinking it was going to reduce emissions and be green, ask for your money back.

Ask them why they don't pursue something that will work for our grandchildrens children, at night in winter, rain, snow, dependable real power, microhydro,  not solar that only works when we are at the beach and don't need it.

The city water pressure reducing station just installed on Hall street has ready connections for microhydro, it will make power for the next century like our dam, reduce water pressure at the same time, and work at night and winter when we need power, why isn't this being pursued?

The Five Mile city water intake also has a completed engineering study for microhydro showing it would pay for the necessary upgrades and make power for the next century or more like our dam has, why are we wasting money on solar? Could it have anything to do with appearances?  Fooling everyone into thinking Nelson is green?

I remain an unwilling participant, as I have always told city council and the hydro manager.

When solar becomes viable we will all know it, no more bleeding the public for this solar fantasy.

UPDATE, I requested a phone call from SD8 persons involved,  I only received an email response

"This was approved by administration and trustees."

UPDATE, I attended an SD8 meeting,  none of them knew about

years of solar data available to them from the SolarBC grant system at LVR.  

part of the media statement regarding their support for the project said it would help administration determine the value of solar power??

I also asked them to request our education dollars back, they have been fooled.

Our dam at full 16MW output makes that year of solar panel power in around one second!  

.

School budget money being wasted on the solar garden

UPDATE Mar. 2018  SD 58 Somebody finally gets it  .it was deemed that the project didn’t make sense from an economic point of view.


Somebody from SD8 Nelson who doesn't know what they are doing, is wasting education dollars on buying some of these Nelson community solar garden panels.
To summarize this blog entry:  The real cost for a solar panel will be closer to $1500, not the pretend $900 that everyone subsidizes.  Our own dam will make for $5 what this $1500 solar panel will make in a year.  Not only that, the solar garden isn't green power.  Read my blog "Give Yourself a Big Green Hug"

                 SD8 has lent credibility to likely the most absurd greenwashing project in Canada!

UPDATE:  AT this evenings city budget meeting 2016/02/18  I asked Alex Love manager of Nelson Hydro what makes the solar garden green, his reply "its isn't green, no one said it was green"????  And all this time I thought people were throwing their money at this loser because it was green??  So why would anyone throw away their money for this project which makes no power worth anything!  In one year it makes the same power our dam makes for $700, its a $300,000 project that won't last 20 years?

Did anyone ask how the several years of  solar demonstration system data  from the LVR high school might look in terms of economics, they need to do this again?

LVR HIGH School $20,000 solar system data

Below is data from 2 Nelson solar systems and a Nakusp School system

Solar power seems to cause normal intelligent people to lose all their common sense.



I have emailed the person involved asking for a phone call, and asking that my(our) public dollars be withdrawn from this phony project!  No return call as of yet.
UPDATE:  I received an email response, this was approved by Administration and Trustees.


Ask for our  public education dollars back, I have....

Contact city council and the mayor 

GIVE YOURSELF A BIG GREEN HUG

            Hopefully my letter to the editor gets published as follows:       

        UPDATE:  AT this evenings city budget meeting 2016/02/18  I asked Alex Love manager of Nelson Hydro what makes the solar garden green, his reply "its isn't green, no one said it was green"????  And all this time I thought people were throwing their money at this loser because it was green??  So why would anyone throw away their money for this project which makes no power worth anything!  In one year it makes the same power our dam makes for $700, its a $300,000 project that won't last 20 years?                

                                                                          

                                       GIVE YOURSELF A BIG GREEN HUG

What makes the Nelson solar garden Green?  Did those buying solar panels expect this power would be greener than our own dam’s waterpower?  Would we just let our water spill over the dam to be replaced by this “green” solar power?

Solar panels aren’t green until they return all the non-renewable energy required to make them,  that can take years, especially in Nelson, this isn’t Arizona.  If solar power can avoid some non-renewable power being spent in a power plant somewhere that could make solar power “green”, otherwise its just an undependable expensive feel good waste.

 The only coal power in BC comes at night  from Alberta, those plants take days to shut down, BC buys that power at night, saving our water.  Alberta has announced all coal power will be gone by 2030.  Our solar garden can’t help there.  So just where is this Nelson solar power becoming “green”?

The solar garden is supposed to save us on purchasing extra power from Fortis.  The engineers report shows the solar garden for December could make 868 kWh, we pay Fortis 4c/kWh, the solar garden would save us $34.  SAVE? We resell that Fortis power for 10c/kWh bringing $86 helping reduce our taxes.  During high water from spring freshet through high summer lake levels our dam makes power to sell, up to 28GWh extra power, equivalent to 700 solar gardens.  The engineers report shows the solar garden might make 7500kWh in July, BC Hydro buys 90% of our extra power for $.007c/kWh, if they buy any at all.  July solar garden power could be worth $52.  Unless all our extra waterpower were sold first, one could not attribute any solar power to getting to the grid to become “green” by saving some non renewable fuel in some unknown power plant somewhere, that makes summer solar power, when almost all of it is made, worthless.

Is this clear, the solar garden SAVES? $34 that otherwise would bring the city $86 and if sold we might get $52 in July for a $300,000 project and no Green House Gas is saved.

When you drive by  the 1^st solar garden about to be constructed give yourself a big green hug, that will be the only thing green about it.  They are now selling solar panels for the 2^nd solar garden.  Your power bill is going up 3.8% this year.   My pension went up 1.2%.

I don’t know how many more of these solar gardens I can afford to have me SAVE? money and make the planet “greener”.  If you are a Nelson Hydro customer not in the city, you too are SAVING and making the planet “green”.

Norm Yanke

Nelson, B.C.

If you feel this is wasting your money, please let city council know

let city council know by clicking on this link.

UPDATE  Now I am angry.  I see SD8 is buying 10 solar panels, wasting education dollars.
I am not sure what phony number is now attached to the purchase of one of these panels.
Last I heard around $900.  Real cost, real money, not included more like $1500.

One solar panel in a year makes the power our dam makes for $5 and sells for a profit.

If sold on the grid to go and find some non-renewable fuel like coal etc.  BC Hydro pays
$.007c/kWh.  That $1500 ($900) solar panel power for the entire year of wasting education dollars would fetch $1.75!!!!!!!!!!!!

   

SOLSHARES SOLAR LEASING VANCOUVER

                      
                              SolShares,  a solar panel leasing  SC--? 

VREC or is it VRE or maybe SolShares, all part of the greening of Vancouver with solar panels.

SolShares a Community owned renewable energy project.  

They claim 3.3% returns on one solar system already installed for a housing co-op and  41 cent dividends already paid  to shareholders. This was only installed and began operating in June or July of 2015?

Now they are looking for shareholders to buck up $67,000 for the next co-op housing solar system.

Lets look at the first $63,000  23kW solar system, that has paid  41 cent dividends and will return 3.3% to shareholders?

Vancouver receives around 1000 annual sunhours,  that 23kW solar system will make 23,000kWh annually if everything is perfect and nothing goes wrong. BC Hydro pays 9.9c/kWh for Net metered power. That would be $2300 annually.    They claim they are being paid 14 cents? it’s a little confusing because BC Hydro does have a stepped rate for power.    Remember this is a 5 year renewable at the same conditions lease, what happens if they don't want to renew?  Who pays to remove these?  For repairs, underperforming panels, cleaning the bird poop, leaves, dust and everything else that reduces power made?  Extra insurance costs?

The claims today are solar systems are being installed for $3/watt or less for a profit.  This system at that would cost $69,000.   The shareholders who bought into the SolShares model put up $63,000.  This went to VREC who supplied and installed the system.  So the system is all paid for.  The system will save the housing co-op somewhere between $2-$3000 on their electric bills.   How much is 23,000kWh annual power?  BC Hydro statistics say the average home uses 11,000 kWh/yr., so this system makes the equivalent power for 2 average homes annually.  They say they read the meter every 3 months and distribute the earnings to shareholders?   Apparently they have already paid a 41c dividend to shareholders, the expected return to shareholders will be 3.3%.

The risks associated with solar panels underperforming, roof leaks, insurance premium increases due to their installation which is already happening in other jurisdictions as well as fire departments only containing fires on building with solar because they cannot be sure the power isn't off.   For something that won't reduce GHG in BC only increase GHG.  I foresee a lot of problems, inverters typically last only 10 years, that will be another $6-10,000.   Defective solar panels?  The largest solar project in Canada in Sarnia suffered major solar panel delaminations and failures, one large California project suffered a 34% failure of panels. No statistics are being kept but the word is a lot of Chinese solar panels are failing prematurely.  The warranties typically 3-5years of workmanship.  They claim they will still make 80% of their original power in 20 years, this generation of panels hasn't been around to prove that, many studies show early losses up to 5% annually in power production and greater.  And who ya gonna call in 20 years to claim on a warranty?

 What does make sense is the prospectus from SolShares states “this is very risky” “you might lose all your money”.

They mention the BC Securities Commission, auditors, etc.  But the shares are being sold without filing a prospectus with the BC Securities Commission,  as they state.

 "SolShare plans to sell shares to the public through the offering memorandum exemption, which allows firms to sell securities to anyone.

The VREC  principles who appear to be all the same people as SolShares, clearly spell out they have no responsibility if anything about the SolShares lease goes wrong etc.  The words Community owned, co-operative,  not really, leased and owned by the owners of VREC.

The 5 year lease states it can be renewed for another 5 years with all of the same conditions.   Would that require another $63,000 from shareholders?

    $63,000 - about $12000 in power, over $50,000 to make power for the equivalent of 2 average homes for 5 years, and no GHG reductions.   If anyone suggests this will help mitigate future hydro increases, most power is consumed in winter, the solar power for November through February, maybe 10% of annual.  This isn't going to help mitigate future energy costs increases.  

And BC Hydro is required to pay full retail for all solar power, a subsidy from all of us, BC Hydro makes power for about 3 cents/kwh.  Solar is a political feel good greenwashing waste in BC.

                   VREC's Mandate Is To Reduce Green House Gases

              The only green I see is that going into the back pockets of VREC for selling solar systems.

Of course there is the other side that I have not been able to discover any statistics about, that would be daytime power sales via the BC US intertie.  How much BC power might be sold to the US on a sunny day from about noon till 3 the only time solar power is made.   Unless all of BC Hydro excess power is sold, any solar sales would be at the expense of sending the cleanest and greenest power, waterpower over the dam pretending this is decreasing GHG's.  Forcing BC Hydro(us) to pay full retail for any solar power, while the spot market for wholesale grid power is nowhere near retail.   Aren't we GREEN

Would anyone suggest BC residents should put solar panels in BC to save GHG in California?  Thats what it amounts to, or let California buy their carbon offsets and pay for our BC solar panels we send them their power for our GHG reduction.   But then wouldn't it be just smarter for them to put these solar panels where the sun does shine?  

 Arizona has a non resident program, one can have the solar panels where the sun does shine.   

If there are any thinkers out there, send your solar panels to Arizona, take a picture,  put the pictures on your fridge, maybe take a trip down to have a look at them,  stop wasting my and the public's money on any more BC solar panel feel green nonsense.

Does anyone think BC residents have greater priorities at home than pretending to be Green with solar panels sending power to California, from where the sun doesn't shine to where it does?

I think that takes care of any argument that BC solar panels are making GHG reductions by transporting our solar power south to where the sun actually does shine a lot.

                                             SolShare investor package
                                               VREC website 


UPDATE October 2017 

I see the latest Bull@##$$%  from these people.


My comment will likely never see the light of day its pending moderation, all my comments never get printed.

So now they claim Present ROI 3.6%  Possible ROI 7%, yet under the column of
Return of Capital POSSIBLE??? ,,,, hello,  Return on investment 3.6% possible 7% yet return of capital is only POSSIBLE? 

Using the famous accounting techniques

EBITDA, that widely-touted measure of company performance and indicator of value otherwise known as earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization, is a fairy tale told to investors and credit managers so that they go to sleep happy instead of running for the hills

Why did famous billionaire investors Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger refer to EBITDA as "BS Earnings"? 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedgavin/2011/12/28/top-five-reasons-why-ebitda-is-a-great-big-lie/#2f780c71d2da

HOW DID THIS EVER QUALIFY AS AN RRSP INVESTMENT????????

The numbers we know, or what they tell us,  capital cost $69,000.

Somehow they conned a building into paying them something like 14c/kWh for power they likely could have, should be, paying less than 10c/kWh for, its not green, they are told its green.

No solar grid tie PV power in BC a waterpower province can be green, its dirty power.  Nothing competes with clean green waterpower.  Unless the solar could avoid the burning of some non renewable like coal, it can never be green, in BC we are all clean green waterpower.

So $69,000 at 3.5% for 25 years is $4140/yr.     Their 23kWp system in Vancouver might if everything is perfect make 23000kWh annually at 14c/kWh = $3220.

BC Hydro makes that same power annually for less than $700.  They are getting $3220!  Don't think they have attracted anyone else yet.

They are RRSP eligible?  Pay dividends?  What is going on here?